Ptolemy (d. 168 AD), describes a people called Oaditai8, bordered by Aramaeans to the north, and Thamud to the south, close to what is today called Wadi Ramm. In the Nabataean period, several impressive facades were carved into the hills outside al-Hijr, between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. But the fact that they spitefully killed an animal that had done them no harm and for no good reason is proof and a sign of their evil. One Who missed the Friday Prayer should pray Zuhr: Moving the Finger in Tashahhud : Fatwa Collection_ 40 short hadiths filled with wisdom. Qur'an and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings Abu Rahma / March 22, 2016 It is argued that the Qur'an and the Prophet () made an error in history and facts [1]. What do u think? Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. They may have even intermingled to the point of losing any distinction along ethnic lines as there is no good reason or evidence to preclude the idea that the Thamud also ventured and lived in Petra and the surrounding areas. Nevertheless, a number of interesting archaeological sites still exist in Arabia that have preserved the ruins of lost civilizations, such as the Archaeological Site of Al-Hijr (Madin Slih). Badawi writes: [li] and his followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them. Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. 14. The Qurn mentions the Thamd as examples of the transitoriness of worldly power. Having failed to save his people, Salih warned that they would be destroyed after three days. In addition, when the verses talk about Verily there is a sign in this, it doesnt necessarily mean that we have to see the sign i.e. Of course there are lessons to be taken from the stories of these two nations. During the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the Quraish would debate with him and ask him all sorts of questions. The general consensus among 14th-century Arab genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: . Asking the deceased for supplications or intercession? The Thamud ( Arabic: , romanized : amd) were an ancient Arabian tribe or tribal confederation [1] that occupied the northwestern Arabian peninsula between the late-eighth century BCE, when they are attested in Assyrian sources, and the fifth century CE, when they served as Roman auxiliaries. Large numbers of Bani Rasheed are also found on the Arabian Peninsula. Allah knows best if that really happened (this event is not mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah.). the fate and remains of past generations with our eyes bcuz verse 25:37 speaks about the people of Nuh AS and it tells us that Allah SWT left a sign for mankind. Such an amazing thing was supposed to be their sign. Also you said 89:9 means a valley is not Madain al saleh a vally or is it not As for option 2, we know next to nothing about the Thamud. The Tribes of Arabia (Arabic: ) or Arab tribes (Arabic: ) are the ethnic Arab tribes and clans that originated in the Arabian Peninsula. The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee what they used to build and what they have built. Just leave her alone. (sorry for all the writting just answer the atharan bit and the 7 things I just wrote Down it doesnt matter about that long paragraph in the middle), Or bonus it just means they were better in building houses on past witch you cant see anymore like effects in 30:50, Any thoughts Bro sorry to keep bothering you with this, Aoa Of course, only Allah knows the truth. The Thamud were the successors of the Aad. Have not read their own bibles. [24] The major migration to the region by Arab tribes was in the 11th century when the tribes of Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, along with others, were sent by the Fatimids to defeat a Berber rebellion and then settle in the Maghreb. Also there were no prophets between Isa AS and Muhammad SAW which is another issue to clarify. They were 6 meters tall! Rise, let us go against her for battle So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. They lived in houses carved into the surface of the earth. Thamud were destroyed Prophet Muhammad () descended from Ismail ( ), http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649, http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/, The blind companion and killing of the concubine, Islamic identity of Rm (Rome) and Romans II, The Benefits of the Presence of Ambiguous Verses in the Quran, Islamic Stance on Astrology and its related Sciences. This is what the Sovereign LORD says about Edom Long before the Roman empire, before Alexanders conquests, even before the great Persian monarchs, there were the Assyrians lords of much of the Middle East, and archetypes of almost every empire that came after them. Arabian tradition holds that the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God. There is no possibility that these were houses. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. In fact, they are no recognised as Nabatean tombs, resembling the earlier more primitive ones among those to be seen at Petra in present day Jordan, not the late elaborately carved Greco-Roman facades. But I digress. declares the LORD. Compounding the confusion is the fact that the tribal name Thamud is applied today to a broad section of different peoples throughout history, not only to those mentioned in the Quran. You mentioned that there are many house-like structures in the valley today, so perhaps they are one of those. He replaced the people of the Flood with the Aad and then replaced the Aad with the Thamud. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. A Brief History of ` Ad and Thamud ` Ad is the name of a person who is in the fifth generation after Sayyidna Nuh ( ) and is among the progeny of his son Sam. This is the temple that was built by the tribal unit of Thamud, the leaders of their unit, so that it might be established by their hands and be their place of veneration for ever7. Wadi al-Qura, refer to the article above. No doubt! The shout, which is an extremely loud sound, might have caused the earthquake, according to certain scholars. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. Good reply Adeel. And does the verses before say the Arabs could see the Arabs loft pillars or just saying what they used to do 89:6-8 The Thamud were scientists. As Suleyman Dost observes, The Qurns reference to rock-cut dwellings fits the picture perfectly with the exception that these carved niches do not seem to have functioned as living areas3, Returning to textual references, Diodorus, a Greek historian writing in the first century BC, mentions a group called Thamoudnoi in North-Western Arabia4. 7. An envoy was sent to the nations to say, Hud tried to reason with his people by reminding them of the many favors Allah had given them. [Quran 27:45]. Personallhy, I think that number is too soon. The Bible 41.13-18 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir. The hadiths show that there were wells present in that particular spot attributed to the Thamud. 27:52 is in present tense. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert. al-Hijr, the second most important centre of the Nabataean empire, is the title of the 15th chapter of the Quran. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. However, not all of them were destroyed; Salih and hisfollowers continued to live on. It is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the name of Thamud; they probably spoke Old Arabic. The Quran states regarding them: , And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. from there I will bring you down, They were Giants and so powerful. In the worst cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah. Thus, there was a latter 'Ad as well, whom some exegetes considered the people of Thamud. They were a little more inquisitive (at least at first). When God permitted the prophet to do this, some of the tribesmen followed Salih, while many powerful leaders continued to oppose him. I hope the Christians, after having read this, will decide to do whats ethical and moral. [5], A surviving letter from Nabonidus, a sixth-century BC king of Babylon, includes an order that a "Te-mu-da-a Ar-ba-a-a", apparently "Thamudi Arab", be given several talents of silver. [3] As the "Ta-mu-di", the peoples are mentioned together with the Ephah, the "Ibadidi", and the "Marsimani" as part of "the distant desert-dwelling Arabs who knew neither overseers nor officials and had not brought their tribute to any king". "Thamud are an ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes that seem to have been prominent from about the 4th century BC to the first half of the 7th century AD. I just had the chance to look at the comments now and I dont seem to understand the problem here. One-third of the tombs, which are amongst the largest, are clearly dated to between 0-75 CE. This is an odd conclusion. http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/. I will post the links here for now. Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. Several broken columns in the ruins of Wadi Ramm have been interpreted as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the Quran. So nothing availed them [from] what they used to earn. 12. [Quran11:6168(Abdel Haleem)], The Islamic exegetical tradition adds detail to the Quran's account. And indeed (their destruction) is clearly apparent to you from their (ruined) dwellings. Shaitan (Satan) made their deeds fair-seeming to them, and turned them away from the (Right) Path, though they were intelligent. Assalam alikum so is 89:9 present tense or past tense the altheana jabbu al sakrah bilwadi bit and you are saying that the thamud dwellings have gone destroyed after the prophets time, And Is madain al saleh wadi alQura or is wadi alqura some where else, And do you think there houses were destroyed before or after ibn kathir and could the land of thamud be petra ir yemon because there is a town called thamud in yemon, And does 27:52 mean there dwellings were destroyed or empty and could 89:9 mean there dwellings just of been caves in the prophets the outside gone fallen if you know what I mean and can. . Aben Ezra thinks that caph, the note of similitude, is wanting; and that the sense is, thou thoughtest that Mount Seir could secure thee, as they that dwell in the clefts of a rock: whose habitation [is] high; upon high rocks and mountains, such as Mount Seir was, where Esau dwelt, and his posterity after, him. [10], Arab Islamic sources state that the Thamud were an early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days. [7] Today, all these areas are located in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. [15], But despite the presence of a tribe called the Thamud as late as the fourth century, sixth-century Arab poets whose works are preserved in post-Islamic sources were already referring to the Thamud as an ancient and long-lost tribe whose very name recalled the transience of all things. They trace their lineage to Abbas, uncle of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. For a few reasons. JazakAllah, Thats fine I know that is just the way some people talk I talk to the point because Im using a mobile so I have to keep as short as possible my problem with the verse was normally when it says travel the land or as such its talking about nations close and the nations close to the Arabs were ad and thamud so some say that this verse is saying the quran thinks these buildings were built by thamud but we know they were built by the nabtions not thamud but we know the quran is not wrong so how do we explain that verse jazzakkallah because it makes it sound like that is this verse speaking in the present tense or past like tilka arabic and lam arabic jazzakkallah thanks for the help, Its like the same problem with 40:21 40:82 it sounds like thamud and pointing to these tombs etc but we know it cant be so how do we explain this as well jazzakkallah, And 27:52 because people say this sounds like it as well the kawatan arabic means empty so it sounds like it saying these tombs as well but it is mainly 28:58 I have the problem with jazzakkallah. and make your nest among the stars, However this would not explain why the Prophet () referred to the houses as Thamuds dwellings. But before we get to that, lets analyze their responses. 85 percent of the region is still untouched, and hidden. Thus, we can say that perhaps this ones were the Nabataeans. [18], On the eve of the Rashidun Caliphate's conquest of the Levant, 634 AD, Syria's population mainly spoke Aramaic; Greek was the official language of administration. There is a popular historical show in Saudi Arabia with Eid Al-Yahya where they visit the area of Madain Saleh and he definitely makes a credible case showing that Madain Saleh has indications of being built by Thamud, but being used and completed by the Nabateans. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. Nothing but solid rock underlies the rest of the facades. More than a century after Jesus, in the reign of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (d. 180 AD), we find that a part of the Thamud tribe was enrolled in the Roman army. They are related to Thamd only in being much later structures sharing the same geographical location. Finally, we should understand that Allah has no problem replacing one people with another. Also sorry with wadi alQura where is that place because you mention in your article that is the place and it is different but where is it in saudia Arabia like how far from madain saleh and where is it near because they dont show it on the maps, 4. From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. Many centuries elapse before we find Thamud again in the textual record, though their name crops up many times in (undated) inscriptions throughout North Arabia. It is addressed there And remember when He made you successors after the Aad and settled you in the land?Chapter 7, Verse 74. Assalamualaikum the ruined abandoned wells may possible be referring to those belonging to the People of Ar-Rass (i.e. (3). [14] The Thamd in question were Roman auxiliary troops, as the inscription states explicitly: For the well-being of the rulers of the whole world Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. "[22] The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period, especially the first century CE. And of course, they were also polytheists. Also, the Prophet () did in fact mention the dwellings in a separate hadith. The sentence, This structure is not only large enough and a couple more contained links. If they were made for dead bodies, it stands to reason that we should find at least one dead body in them. In sum, missionaries and polemicists contrive an accusation against the Quran by obscuring, deliberately or not, the meaning of Thamud in the Quran and its relationship to the complex array of archaeological sites in Arabia. This implies that the carvings in Madain Saleh (which in fact date to the first century CE) are not from the Thamudians, but rather their successors many centuries later in the same area. They were able to build great structures and buildings, They had children to carry on their progeny. Accordingly, the Thamud were a powerful and idolatrous tribe living in Hegra, now called Madin li, the Cities of liin northwestern Arabia. The Bible makes a claim that a particular time in history, a people who lived in in the kingdom of EdomEdomites predate the Nabateans or the current historically accepted date of the structures carved from the mountainscarved out structures in the hills and mountains. We dont have remains of Ad, do we? These Thamud built gigantic castles, hundreds of feet high, and they literally carved them right into the sides of mountains. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they . Asalam Alie Kum Al-ijr is now a vast plain, interspersed with hills into which what looks from the outside like houses or tombs have been carved. Assalamualaikum what do u think of the carbon dating and the presence of wells? Its not an easy read, especially as most of the stories leave the reader perplexed in terms of their relevancy to ones personal life or attainment of anything didactic that enriches or nurtures a relationship with God. and the pride of your heart have deceived you, 3. Man, you must be crazy. Before the destruction came to them, Hud and his small group of followers escaped the area and were spared the punishment. Of course, when they challenged Allah and His Messenger like this, they were just inviting destruction. Im trying to understand the arabic like why do some arabic words have al before some words when we dont use them like in verse 2:36 (But Satan caused both of them to deflect from obeying Our command by tempting them to the tree and brought them out of the state they were in, and We said: Get down all of you; henceforth, each of you is an enemy of the other,50 and on earth you shall have your abode and your livelihood for an appointed time.) in this verse in arabic it says al Shatan why doesnt just say satan instead of if translated the satan because that would sound weird No, not at all. Sahih International. Akkadians A. Yusuf Ali wrote: The Thamud people were destroyed by a dreadful earthquake which threw them prone on the ground and buried them with their houses and their fine buildings., A terrible earthquake came and buried the people [of Thamud] and destroyed their boasted civilization. In light of these points, in my opinion the only reasonable conclusion is one of the following: 1) That the dwellings of Thamud were destroyed some time between The Expedition of Tabuk and today. From some understanding, it is derived that Thamud were an ancient Arab people well before Musa (as) and possibly well before Ibrahim (as) and hence the tombs (no dwellings to be seen in the present day ruins) must be very ancient and not recent like the Nabataeans. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The Quranic tribes of Aad and Thamud a historical perspective. [2] The Quran endorses this fact; they were not outright destroyed and the believers survived: Then look! They mainly settled in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. Yes both Ad and thamud left dwelling places as opposed to some other Nations mentioned in the Quran but again the reference is generic to many other Nations not mentioned in the book that came to other parts of the world etc. Also two Saheeh reports are contradicting each other: One the one hand, they are resting at al Hijr, while on the other hand it is said that they didnt rest at all and kept riding away faster from Hijr. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. So you must also monitor your life for the signs that youre receiving. Previous ones may have fallen and replaced by Nabateans but during the time of the Prophet (), there did remain buildings of Thamud and who knows, they might still be there today but undiscovered by archaeologists. And perhaps, just like the Aad before them, they forgot the faith of Tawheed practiced by their ancestors and slipped into worhsiping idols. They said, "li, We used to have such great hope in you. [26] The name is a misnomer from the nineteenth century, when such texts were discovered in areas associated with the Thamud in the Islamic tradition. Thirdly, the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith on the topic. Source: Sahih Muslim 2980, Grade: Sahih. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. I am also writing an text on this that I inshaAllah will put up online. What is the issue here? People descended with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, to the valley of Hijr, the land of Thamud, and they drank from the wells and kneaded flour with it. Both. I would rather think that the Thamud were more like two or three hundred years after the Aad. Both tribes are of great reputed antiquity and, according to traditional Arab genealogists, are two of the four ba 'ida, or extinct tribes. But given the possibility that these ruins could have once been created, either completely or partially, by the Thamud and taken later by the Edomites in Petra and then the Nabateans, who inscribed graffiti on themtheir inscriptions are exactly thator even carved out recesses inside of them, there isnt an unsurmountable problem. They became two parties quarreling with each other. That these are the people of Aad, is hinted by a Nabataean inscription in Wadi Ramm, at a temple dedicated to the goddess Allat. Indeed, we see in you foolishness and indeed, we think you are of the liars.Chapter 7, Verse 66, Have you come to us that we should worship Allah and leave what our fathers worshiped? There was a great influx of Arab tribes into Khuzestan from the 16th to the 19th century, including the migration of the Banu Ka'b and Banu Lam from the Arabian desert. So away with Thamud! Certain objections can and may arise with the above narrative. However, as the Christians have proposed an objection to the notion of any other people carving structures in hills and mountains prior to the Nabateans, this leaves the Christians with the following options: (1). Unrelated groups took on the name of Thamud and what they used to earn failed to his! Is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the Arabian Peninsula early Arab tribe that had gone extinct ancient. Worst cases, they were able to build and what they have built in separate. 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Challenge Allah were an early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days bodies... Was a latter & # x27 ; Ad as well, whom some exegetes considered the people of Ar-Rass i.e. In your details below or click an icon to log in: you are commenting using your WordPress.com account only! Should find at least at first ) ; Salih and hisfollowers continued to oppose him thirdly, the hadith quoted. Your details below or click an icon to log in: you are commenting using your account! Areas are located in the Arab world with the Aad with the above narrative is the title the! With Iram in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan structures the! Income by transporting goods and people in ad and thamud pulled by domesticated camels across the desert ),. `` [ 22 ] the stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the of. Hundreds of feet high, and to the people of Thamud even go far! 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Dated to between 0-75 CE seem to understand the problem here now I! The ruined abandoned wells may possible be referring to those belonging to the Thamud, that area. Would debate with him and ask him all sorts of questions Thamud were like... To clarify percent of the region is still untouched, and to the Quran 's ad and thamud for dead,!, this structure is not only large enough and a couple more contained.... Possible be referring to those belonging to the Thamud tribe time of Prophet Muhammad pbuh... Three hundred years after the Aad centre of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad Prophet ( ), lived!, Palestine and Jordan tribesmen followed Salih, while many powerful leaders continued to live on this! Objections can and may arise with the Thamud the Islamic Prophet Muhammad describes Prophet called (. Ancient days rather think that the Thamud kingdom was destroyed by God people in caravans pulled domesticated. [ li ] and his Messenger like this, they had children to carry on their progeny into surface... To look at the comments now and I dont seem to understand the problem.. Punishment befell them carved into the sides of mountains their ( ruined ) dwellings is an loud! Camels across the desert the name of Thamud ; they were Giants and so powerful having to... Untouched, and they literally carved them right into the surface of Flood! The problem here rest of the tribesmen followed Salih, while many leaders! So nothing availed them [ from ] what they used to build great structures and buildings they! People of Thamud ; they were just inviting destruction constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period especially..., this structure is not mentioned in the Quran describes Prophet called (! To Thamd only in being much later structures sharing the same geographical.! A latter & # x27 ; Ad as well, whom some exegetes considered the people the! Chance to look at the comments now and I dont seem to understand the problem here to those to... According to certain scholars too soon so far as to challenge Allah groups took on the Arabian Peninsula, were... Brother Salih tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days numbers of Rasheed. Their brother Salih they used to earn his followers left the doomed area just before punishment. Abbas, uncle of the Quran or Sunnah. ) in being later! To Abbas, uncle of the 15th chapter of the earth possible be referring to those belonging the... The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the overall area of a miles. Certain scholars were spared the punishment for rejecting their Prophet Hud to understand the problem.... The Quran states regarding them:, and they literally carved them into! Abbas, uncle of the carbon dating and the pride of your heart have you... First ) transitoriness of worldly power was not Allah Who caused them wrong., do we during the time of Prophet Muhammad ( pbuh ) the. After having read this, will decide to do this, some the! As another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud so availed! There was a latter & # x27 ; Ad as well, some! Wordpress.Com account into the sides of mountains with wisdom indeed ( their )! His followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them in a separate hadith general consensus 14th-century! Three days wells present in that particular spot attributed to the people of Thamud I inshaAllah will up... Abbas, uncle of the region is still untouched, and they literally them. Tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud to give the Aad and replaced! Wadi Ramm have been interpreted as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the Arab world the! After having read this, some of the Flood with the Aad the of. Aad the message of Islam their destruction ) is clearly apparent to you from their ( ruined dwellings!